4leavesonaclover (
4leavesonaclover) wrote2025-03-03 11:15 am
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Chapter 8 ABD Commentary
Original Sporking found here, Daily Palestine and other causes Click here
Current Rotation: Subaki, Irene, Caeldori, Ignatius, Kaze
Irene: Welcome to A Dimmer Light, the chapter.
Kaze: Because of the character derailment of the majority of Hoshido, I as a native Hoshidan, will be stepping up to commentate on the character assassination of the nation.
Caeldori: I'm honestly jealous of my brother, even if he had to do two chapters in a row, at least he avoids this chapter.
Ignatius: Well, let's just get to it. The sooner we're through, the better.
Caeldori: *sighs* Father is going to be in for a rough time as Aunt Sakura's retainer...
Ignatius: I feel queasy too, can we renegotiate which son sits out too?
Kaze: Lady Sakura is actually very involved, for example, she's met on the Birthright route helping the wounded, the Conquest route defending Fort Jinya, and being the first sibling to defect on Revelations. This is blatant infantilization of her character.
Caeldori: Well said, Uncle Kaze. In fact, on Conquest, she refuses to escape and leave Yukimura behind. Here is what she has to say about it:
Chapter 22 Beginning:
Vs Corrin:
Ignatius: Alas, we have to deal with the fact that DDI is judging books by their cover. Aunt Sakura is a cute little sister, so she MUST be a moeblob, right?
Caeldori: Also notice neither of Aunt Sakura's retainers are brought up about this. In fairness, it's probably because DDI lost track of the characters but way to make both Father and Aunt Hana irrelevant.
Subaki: *deep sigh* Of course Hoshido isn't going to be completely perfect but turning it into what I can only describe as a cheap knockoff of the Capitol and Districts from The Hunger Games is really tipping the scales too far. What is it with Fates Antis and their need to overload Hoshido with non-canon problems? The Road Not Trekked has the same issue!
Caeldori: In Clover's setting, Sakura is a very involved character. She and Corrin bond through helping underprivileged people around Hoshido, and is one of the first to be receptive to helping Nohr. She calls out Ryoma for exiling Corrin and defies her entire family to join Uncle Kaze in finding her. Even after the war, she works as a diplomat and becomes a ray of hope to both nations alongside Aunt Elise.
Ignatius: The infantilization of Lady Sakura's character really doesn't help the way others act around her. Such as non-consensual touching.
Caeldori: Time for more counter-worldbuilding. There are Nohrian immigrants in the Omegaverse setting, but most of them are Chevois escaping Nohr's oppressive regime, hence the alliance between Hoshido and the rebels. Most Nohrians don't leave out of an impression that Hoshido won't help them (a point brought up in Azura and Corrin's Revelation support). There is also an issue of distrust in Nohrian immigrants and non-Chevois Nohrian immigrants don't get to contact their loved ones back in Nohr out of a fear of conspiracy and espionage. These are likely more realistic issues, though Leliel and Wanderer can constructively criticize this if they like.
Ignatius: Though knowing DDI is being an edgy teenager has us offering some leniency in his writing. He probably didn't think of much alternate options.
Current Rotation: Subaki, Irene, Caeldori, Ignatius, Kaze
Irene: Welcome to A Dimmer Light, the chapter.
Kaze: Because of the character derailment of the majority of Hoshido, I as a native Hoshidan, will be stepping up to commentate on the character assassination of the nation.
Caeldori: I'm honestly jealous of my brother, even if he had to do two chapters in a row, at least he avoids this chapter.
Ignatius: Well, let's just get to it. The sooner we're through, the better.
"I'm bonding with my sister," she replied, reaching over to pat Sakura's terrified head, "You're the one who said we should take a walk outside, right sis?"Subaki: *visibly bristling in anger* To which Lady Sakura gently moves Corringula's hand off while firmly reminding her that boundaries and consent are important.
Azalin: *disgusted look* Not so much this, however…
Wanderer2691: Stranger danger! STRANGER DANGER!
Leliel: Yeah, um… I’m a massively tactile person and am sometimes unaware of personal space, and just looking at this made me uncomfortable. Creepy toucher, thy name is Corringula.
GODS SAVE US FROM THE PRINCESS: 81
Caeldori: *sighs* Father is going to be in for a rough time as Aunt Sakura's retainer...
"Well it was a good idea. And since I love my sister oh so much, there's no one I would rather explore the great unknown with."Subaki: Hana and I then step in to say that while Corringula may be Lady Sakura's long lost sister, she should also mind milady's boundaries. *grips his naginata tightly*
Jude: *queasy, pale* Not helping!
Velouria: Er… Can we renegotiate which daughter gets to sit this chapter out…?
GODS SAVE US FROM THE PRINCESS: 82 (This technically isn’t a double point, since it’s separate from the pet - because, to be frank, it’d shoot up by four if I did do double points. Yikes. Poor Sakura...)
Ignatius: I feel queasy too, can we renegotiate which son sits out too?
Corrin crossed her arms, "I know the entire city can't look like this, so I have no intention of heading back anytime soon. Now, me and sister dear are going to go for a walk; you can head to the castle if you want and tell Mikoto how you misplaced her long lost daughter, or you can come along and not complain."Irene: For someone who is supposed to be the "edgy, cooler" version of me, she somehow acts more childish than any of us. Between this and refusing a bath, I feel like Kagero is parenting a toddler here. I think our Kanas have acted more mature as toddlers than she has.
Velouria: Kagero proceeded to choose the third option - punch the arrogant brat in the face and drag her unconscious body back by the hair.
"Oh, uhm...I actually know that…" Sakura spoke up, "Yukimura told me...they're supposed to transport water and rice to everywhere in the city."Kaze: This is one of the few good moments of worldbuilding. A shame it gets derailed very soon...
Kagero nodded, "Populace tend to be satisfied as long as they have easy access to food, water, and entertainment. In this way, peace can be maintained across the kingdom even in times of struggle. Water and rice are the bare necessities of living, so even those who aren't particularly well off have no fear of starving, and thus never feel need to lash out against authority."
Azalin: Bread and circuses, the two pillars of support for the velvet glove of power. I find myself in approval, for reasons I doubt my peers will mash a button for.
Wanderer2691: Hardly. This is actually a good way of showing Hoshido’s relative abundance, that there’s a regular food barge circuit to the rest of the city to help people avoid starving, and it’s free. There’s nothing sinister about it, it’s just good as a social safety net that also helps with stability.
Jude: In any case, Kagero admits the canals don’t go by the lower districts due to fear of contamination of the water, so naturally, Corrin wishes to see them. Kagero tries to persuade her otherwise, as it isn’t safe for nobility, and then-Irene: The part about the concern of water being "contaminated" combined with the way the Nohrians are treated, makes me concerned that this is more extra xenophobic Hoshido not wanting dirty Nohrians to touch their water.
"I'm...kind of curious, actually," Sakura stuttered out, "Now that Kamui...I mean, now that...Corrin brings it up...I haven't seen all that much of the city…"
"You haven't?" Corrin didn't bother to hide her surprise, "But, don't you live here? How could you not have seen your city?"
Velouria: That… is a very good question. Huh?
Wanderer2691: Seriously, one of the main differences between Sakura and Elise is that Sakura is the more world-wise one. Her issue is self-deprecation, not being naive. So the moment she’d hear about the lower district’s water problem, she’d promptly go down there and beat herself to a pulp trying to fix the source. Seriously, what gives?\
Kaze: Lady Sakura is actually very involved, for example, she's met on the Birthright route helping the wounded, the Conquest route defending Fort Jinya, and being the first sibling to defect on Revelations. This is blatant infantilization of her character.
Caeldori: Well said, Uncle Kaze. In fact, on Conquest, she refuses to escape and leave Yukimura behind. Here is what she has to say about it:
Chapter 22 Beginning:
Yukimura: Milady, you must stop healing our soldiers and retreat. There isn't a moment to lose. Lord/Lady Corrin and his/her army are outside the fort, preparing for battle.Vs Azura:
Sakura: Corrin's here? ...I see. Then I will j-join the fight.
Yukimura: You don't know what you're saying. You need to get back to the castle right—
Sakura: I WILL NOT LEAVE!
Yukimura: L-Lady Sakura?!
Sakura: I'm sorry, Yukimura. I know you're only looking out for me. But I'm no longer a powerless princess. I will f-fight for my kingdom. I refuse to leave these soldiers behind and be the only one who escapes! Please, Yukimura. P-please try to understand.
Sakura: After M-Mother died, I began training, so I could protect the ones I love. I won't let anyone get past me - not even you!
Vs Corrin:
Sakura: I know... And I know I probably can't w-win against you, either. But as a princess, I have to at least try to protect my kingdom! So, r-ready your sword. It's time to battle!
Ignatius: Alas, we have to deal with the fact that DDI is judging books by their cover. Aunt Sakura is a cute little sister, so she MUST be a moeblob, right?
"I...have never been out...without my siblings…"Subaki: Again, the royal family isn't like that. Firstly, milady is perfectly independent and capable of going out and helping by herself. Secondly, her siblings do nothing of the sort to prevent her from helping. In fact, Lord Ryoma encourages her as seen in her supports with him:
Velouria: … that raises further questions.
Jude: This honestly implies that not only is Sakura showing more blindness than she ever has had, it’s been the Royal Family actively leading her away. Not only is this yet more defaming of Hoshido, it’s out-of-character for them as well. The only member who wouldn’t wonder what the hell was going on just from “water problem” is Takumi, and even he would probably join if Sakura went first, if only to serve as a bodyguard. He wouldn’t try to dissuade her from exploring the city. This isn’t pointing out a flaw in the illusion, it’s claiming the audience can’t suspend disbelief because the illusionist is in a theater.
Ryoma: I'm proud of you for helping all the time. You're growing into a lovely young woman.Kaze: And Lady Hinoka is similar in wanting to help teach her:
Sakura: I'm not strong like you are, Ryoma, so I'm not much help during battle... That's why I try to do as much as I can off the battlefield.
Ryoma: That isn't true. You're plenty of help during battle! You're a talented healer. There's no need to be so hard on yourself. It's OK to depend on us sometimes.
Sakura: Hinoka, I have a favor to ask. I want you to give me lessons!Kaze: However, DDI being a misguided teenager means that he does not give too much regard of looking beyond the superficial traits of these characters unlike we are doing.
Hinoka: Lessons in what?
Sakura: Well, um...up until now, I was afraid to ask for your help with fighting. I thought I'd only be in your way if we trained together.
Hinoka: Sakura, don't think like that...
Sakura: After our talk the other day, I want to try harder. I want you to train me for battle.
Hinoka: You're serious?! I never thought you'd say that!
Sakura: I want you to be able to count on me, Hinoka.
"...Well, it seems like you're outvoted, Kagero. Let's see this lower city of yours."Irene: In fact, Yoona and Taeyeon can attest that Kagero is overly vigilant to the point that her only limit is granting them privacy for certain matters. Hell, Saizo would have probably revealed himself just to object because he doesn't have that limit prior to trusting my alternate route counterparts.
Velouria: *Kagero* ”Odd. I thought twenty was bigger than two.” Cue the disguised bodyguard-cum-prisoner escort revealing their kunais, because in a sane universe, she would have likely got every ninja in eartshot on short notice to guard two of the royal family in the city streets, because she isn’t an idiot.
Caeldori: Also notice neither of Aunt Sakura's retainers are brought up about this. In fairness, it's probably because DDI lost track of the characters but way to make both Father and Aunt Hana irrelevant.
Going down the mountain, they had walked through two checkpoints just to reach the lower districts. At each checkpoint she was met with suspicious eyes, and her companions with warnings of the dangers for a noble to walk through such 'uncivilized' territories. Territories not a couple miles away from their artisans and merchants. The further down the mountain, the more 'uncivilized' the area became, until there was nothing but a shadow of the beautiful city they came from.Ignatius: The whole "mountain getting worse the lower they go" seems like some juvenile attempt of symbolism, which it probably is.
Velouria: … Would hitting the button be a double-count, here?
Leliel: Given how we’re actively seeing the author sincerely trying to make the town a Hive City from Warhammer 40K, and the racism? No to either.
Velouria: Thank you. *makes air-wanking motion to hit both buttons*
A DIMMER LIGHT: 21
A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE… EMBLEM: 23
Subaki: *deep sigh* Of course Hoshido isn't going to be completely perfect but turning it into what I can only describe as a cheap knockoff of the Capitol and Districts from The Hunger Games is really tipping the scales too far. What is it with Fates Antis and their need to overload Hoshido with non-canon problems? The Road Not Trekked has the same issue!
"Listen, you little shit, judging by your atrocious accent it's clear you've never set foot in Nohr, have you? I'm more Nohrian than you ever will be so don't start thinking you can judge me."Irene: At this point, who is she even for? I didn't know there's now gatekeeping for Nohrianness!
Azalin: Which be more than I can say for this bigoted wastrel who is spitting on her own people for daring to not be ‘real’ countrymen. Weren’t you complaining previously of being without peers, little queen?
GODS SAVE US FROM THE PRINCESS: 84 (Even beyond these being bandits, it’s telling that she immediately leapt to insults rather than trying to talk them down - Her Serenity’s ego does not enjoy any wounds!)
Seeing the inevitability of combat, Corrin's hand immediately dropped to her side and reached out for a sword where none was.Caeldori: Don't forget making Kagero look stupid for either not noticing or not caring. Or possibly both. In fact, this wasn't thought up of during the passing of the checkpoints?
Wanderer2691: … you went to a part of the city where Kagero tried to stop you due to being dangerous for nobles, and you didn’t fucking arm yourself?!
Jude: Ah, that explains what these alleged bandits are. They’re obviously a patrol from interested parties meant to remove idiots from noble families before they inherit. We should commend them for their attempt to overcome the force of Suedom.
FIXING WHAT AIN’T BROKE: 116
GODS SAVE US FROM THE PRINCESS: 85 (Because her reckless stupidity endangers Sakura too, and was done largely to spite Kagero.)
Corrin had been in pheasants' homes before, as scandalous as that was.Ignatius: Come of think of it, how are Corringula's escapades outside the Northern Fortress so casually mentioned? Mother and all her incarnations are very sheltered. The one time they were outside with Uncle Silas led to him nearly being executed and Mother having memories of Uncle Silas forcibly erased.
Velouria: And no doubt very traumatizing for the unfortunate birds in question, given how hedonistic this Corrin is - I dread what she got up to in the coop.
Jude: And of course, suddenly she cares about scandal when the poor are involved…
GODS SAVE US FROM THE PRINCESS: 86
Each time she wandered from the castle, she always felt the desperation there, and the struggle to survive each day. But something about the old man's home was different. It was not desperation she felt when she looked on the closely packed spaces and the stench of humanity stuffed into such a small place. Here, all she could see was the complete lack of hope.
"You mean this was kept from you all these years? You were never even curious? You never questioned?" Corrin accusedSubaki: *sharpening his naginata in annoyance* We already talked about milady's initiative to do more, but it begs more attention to be brought up. Here's her solo ending:
"Of course, why would she?" Kagero explained, "She is still young, and 4th in line for the throne. Why would her tutors educate her on the affairs of the state?"
Azalin: *jaw drop* … because she is fourth in line for the throne, you inconceivable idiots?!
Velouria: Even if all three of her siblings survive, Sakura is, by birthright, an extremely powerful person - she might not sit on the throne, but she is very much a representative for people who are, and an advisor. To have her be this unaware of affairs of the state is… moronic.
Leliel: We are not saying that younger children for the throne were not less deliberately prepared - frequently, in the real world, they weren’t. But being less focused on and being completely ignorant are two entirely separate things - especially since all this is doing, on a narrative level, is making Sakura a moeblob! The button, please?
After Ryoma ascended the throne, Sakura led recovery efforts to heal the bodies and hearts of war-torn Hoshidans. She was known far and wide for her compassion and the strength of her resolve.and her married endings always state that
His wife, Sakura, dedicated herself to helping the underprivileged, and the two worked happily together.
Caeldori: In Clover's setting, Sakura is a very involved character. She and Corrin bond through helping underprivileged people around Hoshido, and is one of the first to be receptive to helping Nohr. She calls out Ryoma for exiling Corrin and defies her entire family to join Uncle Kaze in finding her. Even after the war, she works as a diplomat and becomes a ray of hope to both nations alongside Aunt Elise.
"Young? She's fourteen, she could practically be married by now and you're saying she's too young to learn how her kingdom operates?"
Jude: …urp.
Wanderer2691: *slightly green* Oh, joy. It’s this canard of grimdark medieval life. Which makes Corrin’s behavior earlier… even creepier. Ugh.
A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE… EMBLEM: 25
Azalin: *eyelights narrow* I am asking my counsel to make note of this. I have a bad inkling of where this might go, given her age…
Ignatius: The infantilization of Lady Sakura's character really doesn't help the way others act around her. Such as non-consensual touching.
He nodded, "There were thousands of Nohrians in Hoshido when the barrier was first constructed. Some were soldiers on deployment, but many more were simple citizens like myself. Hoshidans from Nohrian descent who wished for a more comfortable life. But somebody has to reap the fields, grow the orchards, and water the crops; somebody has to wash the gutters and pave the roads. No matter how bountiful the soil, it needs hands to work it."Irene: First of all, beastfolk being enslaved gives me Shield Hero vibes, which is not something any piece of fiction should be giving. Secondly, this level of oppression is guaranteed to breed resentment and encourage the cornered animal to bite back. There's a reason why the Districts in The Hunger Games ultimately prevailed over the Capitol.
Azalin: … and this be worldbuilding for the sake of slander. Of course. Let me partake of the button again…
A DIMMER LIGHT: 23
"So, you do the work to keep them fed, and are sent to the gutters?"
"Not just Nohrians. Kitsune, Wolfskins, Taguel…
Caeldori: Time for more counter-worldbuilding. There are Nohrian immigrants in the Omegaverse setting, but most of them are Chevois escaping Nohr's oppressive regime, hence the alliance between Hoshido and the rebels. Most Nohrians don't leave out of an impression that Hoshido won't help them (a point brought up in Azura and Corrin's Revelation support). There is also an issue of distrust in Nohrian immigrants and non-Chevois Nohrian immigrants don't get to contact their loved ones back in Nohr out of a fear of conspiracy and espionage. These are likely more realistic issues, though Leliel and Wanderer can constructively criticize this if they like.
tribals are left well alone, as long as they stay to the outer reaches, but anyone who tries to integrate their culture into the cities...the Hoshidans have a beautiful culture of peace and plenty, but it was built by Hoshidans for Hoshidans. Anyone different, anyone who tries to upset the status quo, or tries to take some of that beauty for themselves aren't treated so kindly."Subaki: Thankfully he grew up and learned some self-awareness.
"Of course...when you have perfection, why risk polluting it?" Corrin said bitterly
Jude: A sentiment, I’m sure, the author thinks of whenever their story is criticized.
She still needed to find some way home, and to find her true family back home. Once she could talk things over with her siblings, and her father, she knew everything would fall into place.Irene: Corringula needing to run back to Daddy for help is not helping the childish allegations. I at the very least tried my hardest to settle things peacefully. It didn't work out several times, but I at least did more than she ever thought of.
Jude: …
Wanderer2691: … Oh look. It’s the Chapter Rant Time. *grinds teeth*
Jude: … You. Are. Useless.
Azalin: In fact, not only are you useless - you are weak. The kind of weak that insults the Lower Planes in your incompetence at being any competent strain of evil.
Leliel: And also an example of a very toxic kind of character that should have died with the 1990s: the Strong Female Protagonist. Not to be confused with an actually strong protagonist who is female.
Jude: *inhale* Let us outline the scenario. You have been faced with evidence - no, direct proof - that the ethnicity you consider your people is being actively oppressed and mistreated. One of them has gone outright borderline spree killer on anything that looks like a native Hoshidan noble, or a Nohrian assistant. And your reaction is “I can’t make decisions, I need to go home first”?!
Azalin: This be why I chose my lieutenants for independence more than blind loyalty - I can deal with scheming, so long as they do not need orders to analyze, say, whether they be adorned in red or blue that day. You, little royal, have just shown that for a character who claims to be a commander, you have little ability to command.
FIXING WHAT AIN’T BROKE: 122
Velouria: Even more importantly - it’s cowardly. Rather than take matters into your own hands, and possibly face responsibility, you shut down and redouble on the idea of running away back to someone else, and shove the responsibility on Garon instead. Incredible show of wisdom and compassion there, truly.
Ignatius: Though knowing DDI is being an edgy teenager has us offering some leniency in his writing. He probably didn't think of much alternate options.
Corrin's vision was somewhat dazed so she couldn't get a perfect look, but she was pretty sure the seven young men marching in the home with decorative armor and swords at their belts were Hoshidans. They weren't guards, their armor was too fancy and impractical, it was more likely that they were noble sons given the careless way they walked and lack of care to disguise their contempt for the surroundings. The only thing that really held their interest was SakuraSubaki: What is the point of these frat boy equivalents in Hoshido? Calling on a more grounded take, the post-war omegaverse setting has some nobles bitter about having to share resources with Nohr. That is a more realistic response of once having plenty but now being forced to share, and rich nobles can be quite stingy, not helping that they're sharing with their former enemies.
Velouria: Not going to call out the spoiled sons of the aristocracy looking like children in dress-up, because there is no illogic - these people are here on their own time, so naturally they look like they dressed themselves as what their idea of soldiery is. I am going to point out that it’s notable only Hoshido is shown to have these so far…
"So it's true, you are keeping a Hoshidan noble here!" One of them shouted at no one in particular, drawing his sword carelessly without a target in mind, the sign of someone who didn't respect how dangerous steel could be, "What gives you savages the right to bring a noble into your home?"Kaze: A bored noble taking vigilante justice on criminal-type people. Sound familiar, Corringula?
Azalin: Cacas, these kind of noble heirs - bane of my being. There needed no twisting for that hell’s nobles to be this kind of irritant…
Leliel: In a bit I am too cynical and distrustful of vigilantes in general to call unrealistic, the nobles make everything worse and slap Kagero after they decide that she’s a prostitute (or possibly are just misogynistic), leading to an actually good beginning of a fight as the spree killer leader kills one of the nobles to protect his father.
Before they were even through the gate Sakura was being mother henned by some bespectacled blue haired man that looked twice her ageKaze: And note again that Hana and Subaki, Sakura's own retainers, are not even considered in regards to Sakura's involvement with everything that happened.
"I'm...okay, Yukimura," Sakura replied meekly,
Wanderer2691: Wait. The spectacled blue hair man you literally met last night?! … are you literally a blackout drunk?!
Azalin: Also, calling a royal retainer who just discovered that a princess was just involved in a lethal fight a mother hen. You know, the bare minimum reaction I would expect my son’s tutors to have and not be of more than half a mind to reduce them to dust. Slowly.
GODS SAVE US FROM THE PRINCESS: 89
Jude: Anyway, Yukimura swears to punish the guardsman who let out royals without a full escort, and either Sakura or Kagero pressures him to talk about the lower districts, we literally cannot tell due to a lack of dialogue tags. Given how it’s explicit only Sakura cares about the condition of the districts, this is important.
A/N: So, I'm going to briefly go over the cultural and societal makeup of the world as I've altered it. Nothing else is really talked about, so you can skip this if you'd rather find out through reading.Subaki: And we conclude with DDI using Encyclopedia Trustmebro for his worldbuilding. See you next chapter, you can tell we had a lot to complain here.
Jude: Given how badly you’ve made the in-character worldbuilding? This is required reading, and the fact it’s missing from the AO3 version is a further mark against you.
no subject
Indeed. Here we go...
With a meaningful glance at her knuckle-ready staff.
It does seem to be a theme with "improved" edgy MC versions, going by my sample size.
Would not be shocking.
Seriously, and it's frustrating how many people still think she is moeblob because of her design.
That's Really The Core Issue, Reason #820.
Given the date this came out, more like Midgard from FF7. Not really a shift, methinks that it comes from the initial Japanese release that really did make Hoshido very Sueish...and was course-corrected in every release since then, now it's Orientalism and saltiness.
I'm not sure if DDI knew, ever.
Indeed. Behold the issue with making Garon less insane, it's key to the characterization of everyone.
Nice! She deserves that importance.
Comes off as DDI falling for less realistic depictions of the Dung Ages idea of medieval Europe. Like saying they had bad teeth, when there wasn't even enough sugar around to damage enamel.
Nah, that's pretty good suspicion of foreigners, with realistic underpinnings.
Yeah, that's why I'm way more chill abou t it these days.
Exactly - there's always going to be idiots, but why do they have to be so prominent?
Hehehehe.
Yeah, that's the big thing. So, so much lack of Hoshidan characters. It is not surprising that Teen DDI didn't play Birthright.
See you then!